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On August 21st 2007, Game Developers Irrational Games released a little game called Bioshock. The hype for the game was massive, part due to it being a spiritual successor to the popular System Shock series, but also due to its incredibly unique and haunting setting and the now legendary ‘Big Daddies’.

Expectations were high for this game, and it now stands as one of those few games that surpassed those expectations.

Indeed, Bioshock is nothing short of a masterpiece. One of the few Post-Modernist video games out there, sitting comfortably beside Portal and Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty (all of which are personal favourites of mine), its influences ranging from George Orwell to Ayn Rand, its truly immersive environment and tight storytelling won the hearts of many. Playing Bishock from beginning to end was a complete experience. The story of Rapture had been told; we did not need to go back again.

So naturally they made a sequel.

By no means the worst sequel to a game out there, Bioshock 2 just could not live up the masterpiece of its prequel. The story wasn’t half as compelling, the grab of being able to play as a Big Daddy quickly loses all intrigue when you realise you play exactly like a normal human, and the fact that most of the game revolves around the worst mechanic from the original game all added up into a very disappointing game.

It was no surprise that another Bioshock game was announced, but it was not initially met with warm reception. We’d already been to Rapture twice now. What could a third visit really give us that was new and substantial?

But in the end, they didn’t take us back to Rapture. No, they took us the sky.

Released on March 26 2013, Bishock Infinite spread its wings and took us to the sky city of Columbia; a setting that shared as many differences with Rapture as it did similarities. While many aspects from the original game return (albeit with a few tweaks and remodelling) the game is very much a different experience; touching on themes of racism, religious propaganda and deconstruction of American Exceptionalism. Adding to that of course was the main character Booker Dewitt being a speaking character instead of a silent character.

And of course Elizabeth; arguably the most important-and probably best-aspect of the game.

Like Bioshock and unlike Bioshock 2, Infinite was been universally acclaimed by critics and is currently considered by many as the reigning video gaming champion of 2013; a title that will be hard to take from it. But is it better than the original? Does Infinite take what was great about the original Bioshock and makes it even better? Or does the original Bioshock still stand as the dominant game in Modern shooters?

There’s only one way to find out, and I know we’ll all asking the same question, so let’s start. This is Bioshock vs Bioshock Infinite!




Bioshock vs Bioshock Infinite



Main Characters:

When I originally started this comparison, I was gonna say it was an open and shut case, and that Bioshock Infinite took the point with ease. After all, how could a silent protagonist like Jack compare to two fully realised characters like Booker Dewitt and Elizabeth?

But, looking at them again and listening to some peoples view, it’s…not as clear cut as I initially imagined.

First, let’s start with Bioshock’s main character, Jack. As you all know, Jack is a silent protagonist. Well, forgetting the first line in the game where he speaks, but the rest of the time he keeps his yap shut. Nowadays silent protagonists aren’t met with much enthusiasm. Some feel they take away from the story when characters are constantly speaking to someone who never replies back, and often times this can be true.

With Jack however it is different. Much like Chell from Portal, Jack in many ways needed to be silent.

As I mentioned before, Bioshock is a post modernist video game, but why is that exactly? Because just like Portal and Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty, Bioshock’s narrative involves the player be guided by a figure not physically present, telling you-yes, literally you as the player-to go down a very linear path and set of events and do exactly what they say.

And in all three cases, you are tricked and deceived. Raiden turns out to be an unwitting pawn to The Patriots, GlaDOS intends to kill Chell as soon as she is no longer useful, and finally with Jack, Atlas/Fontaine tries to get rid of you as soon as you take out his biggest threat, Andrew Ryan.

But that’s not all. Not only has Raiden, Chell & Jack been betrayed, but you-the player-has been as well. You have blindly followed their commands and have acted like mindless puppets dancing to their strings.

All three games are fascinating looks at the relationship between video games and the people who play them, and how differently we act in these fictional worlds compared to our own. It’s this that put both Jack and Chell above the average silent protagonist, but ultimately, that’s the only thing they have. In the end Jack and Chell are just storytelling devices, and quite obviously neither have any three dimensional characteristics (you can choose to make Jack good or evil with how he treats the Little Sister, but let’s face it, it’s pretty one dimensional).

If anything, that’s something Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty had over the two later games. It was able to juggle post modernist themes whilst still having a three dimensional main character.
So originally, this was the part where I was gonna point about how Booker and Elizabeth won by a landslide because they were three dimensional characters, but as stated, it’s not so simple. Let us start with Booker Dewitt.

Booker Dewitt……has problems.

Okay, for those of you who don’t know, some people knock Nathan Drake from the Uncharted series for his constant wisecracking in the midst of fire fights and some claim him to be a sociopath. Personally speaking I disagree with this sentiment. In the entire trilogy there’s only been one moment where I felt he needlessly killed people. Most of the time he goes out of his way to save innocents and is one incredibly loyal friend to have, and I would argue his constant jokes were just his way of coping with the immense pile of shit thrown at him on a daily basis.

To be fair, I see the argument, but I don’t agree with it. What I would argue however is that Booker Dewitt has kicked Nathan Drake off of the ‘unintentional psychopath’ throne.

Here’s the thing; it’s made clear early on that Booker Dewitt has done some horrible things. The atrocities he caused at Wounded Knee, the Pinkerton fiasco, the gambling debts……Booker was not a good man at all, and this is before we find out he sold his own daughter to pay off the debts.

But, Bioshock Infinite is partly about Booker’s redemption, becoming a better man and no longer the violent murderer he once was, and he does this by……

…Killing hundreds and hundreds of people on Columbia……in often very gory ways…

……Oh dear.

Worse yet is the ending scene after credits, where Booker wakes up to a crying Anna, implying he can live a normal life with his daughter. I initially assumed this was a pretty happy ending. Booker has regretted his past actions and will try to clean up his life and be the loving father Anna needs.

Then I watched TheSpoonyOnes review of Bioshock Infinite, and I’m not gonna lie, he made me rethink this ending completely.

I realise now that I based my assumption that Booker remembered the events on Columbia on nothing. They were erased from existence, as was the Booker Dewitt we played as, so this is a Booker Dewitt from a timeline where Comstock never offered to pay off the debts in return for Anna, since Comstock never existed. So does that make this all okay?

If this is correct, no it doesn’t, because this Booker has not gone through any of the character development he went through in the game. This is the same Booker Dewitt who butchered hundreds at Wounded Knee, got kicked out of the Pinkerton Agency, got into Gambling trouble, but worst of all would willingly sell his own daughter to pay off his debts.

That’s…um…that’s quite horrifying.

It’s admittedly up to you how the final scene is interpreted, but I can’t help but worry that Spoony may be right on this one. So ultimately Booker’s character is a mess and a failure at what Irrational Games were trying to do with him. So, does that mean Jack wins?

Well, I can’t say yet, because we also have to consider Elizabeth.

Oh Elizabeth……

I, like many people, have fallen in love with Elizabeth. How could I not? Bioshock Infinite has been out less than two months but already Elizabeth has become one of the most popular female characters in video games. Out of everything in Bioshock Infinite, Elizabeth seems to be the one aspect given the most attention and love. Fitting, since she is effectively the core of the game.

With Bioshock Infinite, it’s Elizabeth’s growth that kept us invested, not Bookers. We see her go from the sheltered but inquisitive innocent to the shell shocked determined woman she becomes. Everything seems to make her life more and more like hell and her woes keep tugging at our heartstrings, but her determination to see things through lift our spirits back and make us admire this woman. It also really helps that despite most of the game being essentially an escort mission, Elizabeth is always a helping hand and never a hindrance to the player.

Where Booker fails, Elizabeth truly does make up for it. Hell, one could really argue that Elizabeth is the true main character of the game, and I’d sympathise with that view.

So, I’ve been ranting about main characters for a while now; have I made a decision?

Hmmm….

As…much as I love Jack’s role in Bioshock, I have to concede that Jack is ultimately a storytelling device. He’s a fantastic storytelling device, but without it he is nothing. He’s got no personality traits or anything for us to latch onto him as a person.

And while Booker is flawed, he’s not annoying or a pain to play as. His whole character arc is just fucked up, but he’s never unbearable to be around. And who knows, maybe he does remember his time on Columbia at the end and he does become a better father. I certainly hope so…

With that said and done, Elizabeth steals the victory for Bioshock Infinite. There’s something to be said about a character who you genuinely get invested in and feel for like a real person. Oh how I’d love to dance with her on the Beach, then take her to Paris and see the Eiffel Tower…

Edge: Bioshock Infinite

Villains:


I am Andrew Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question. Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?

'No!' says the man in Washington, 'It belongs to the poor.'

'No!' says the man in the Vatican, 'It belongs to God.'

'No!' says the man in Moscow, 'It belongs to everyone.'

I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible.

I chose... Rapture, a city where the artist would not fear the censor, where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality, Where the great would not be constrained by the small!

And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city as well.


It’ been over five years since we first heard Andrew Ryan say those famous lines, but still do they leave an unforgettable impression.

Andrew Ryan is easily the best character of Bioshock, despite only having one physical scene. Much of what we find out about is detailed in the above monologue and recorded messages found all over Rapture. Through them, we are painted a picture of a charismatic man who on some levels we could agree on. Taking heavy inspiration from Ayn Rand’s beliefs of rational self interest, we can understand that Andrew Ryan wanted to create a world where the intelligent, the creative and the determined were not undermined by the society they lived in. He wanted a world where people could work to their full potential without restraint or adherence to a set of rule.

We understand why Andrew Ryan wanted to create Rapture, and we see how even though it has gone to hell, how Ryan still clings to the world he has created, never showing regret for what he has caused. That’s one hell of a villain.

Bioshock Infinite had a big challenge to match Andrew Ryan, and they turned from a political extremist to a religious and patriotic extremist in the form of Zachary Hale Comstock. Believing himself a Prophet, Comstock created Columbia, a floating symbol of American ideals at a time when the United States was becoming a world power. When told to stand down due to an incident in China, Comstock saw this as a betrayal and seceded from the United States, seeing it as a shell of it former self and labeling Columbia as the true America.

Comstock turned his patriotism into a religion, having his followers worship the Founding Fathers as the prophets of God’s great plan. He also saw Caucasians as the only truly free race, and viewed minority races with contempt. He declared Abraham Lincoln "the Great Apostate" who brought nothing but war and death upon the country. He also saw Columbia as the key to usher the world into righteousness and became determined to make it a reality.

On the plus side, the attention to detail towards Comstock’s minsdet is praiseworthy, and I can’t help but find it quite socially relevant to today. With groups in America like The Tea Party and the Westboro Baptist Church who probably dream of America being like this, this extremely negative portrayal of extremist Christianity and patriotism gets my approval.

Of course, not all Christians are like the ones in this game, and here’s where there are issues with Comstock. I’m sure as many of you know by now that Comstock is in fact Booker Dewitt from an alternate timeline. Our Booker had a chance to be baptized for his previous sins, but turned the chance down, believing dunking your head in water does not erase your past. An alternate Booker however went through with the Baptism and became Comstock, the racist mad man he is now.

One could interpret that as saying that religion made Booker evil, and while I’m not personally offended (I’m a Humanist) I can respect why some people might by. Hell, somebody who worked on the game nearly quit because of this.

As many of you might’ve well guessed, Andrew Ryan is easily the better villain. As previously mentioned, you can to some extent understand Ryan’s motivation and you’re enthralled by his charisma and passion. Comstock in the end is just a racist, fundamentalist mad man whose most interesting characterization is his connection to Booker.

‘But what about the other villains?!’ some of you are not doubt asking. Well, for starters, how can you talk about Bioshock without talking about Frank Fontaine, the true final villain? The man who led the civil war against Andrew Ryan, Fontaine plays the part of Atlas through the majority of the game, making you believe he was your friend, your ally, your only hope of survival…

…only for him to reveal the truth, in one of the most shocking moments in video game history.

For that alone he’s a great villain. He doesn’t have the slight ambiguity that Ryan had, but he didn’t need it. He was the man you trusted who stabbed you in the back, and had been planning before it all even started. That’s one hell of a villain.

As for Bioshock Infinite, the only other noteworthy main villain besides Comstock is Daisy Fitzroy, the leader of Vox Populi, an army consisting of Black people and Irish who fight against Comstock. She…could’ve been an interesting villain; her first appearance showed her to be a cold but compromising leader, making a deal with Booker whilst at the same time personally helping a wounded soldier.

Unfortunately, her subsequent appearances portray her as a psychopath who has no issue killing a small child. It’s true this Daisy is an alternate timeline and therefore with difference, but it is a shame how little developed she was. Unfortunately this is an issue with much of Bioshock Infinite’s story that will be addressed later.

Quite obvious who wins wouldn’t you say? Point goes to Bioshock!

Edge: Bioshock

Design:


I think we all remember the shock and awe we felt when we first saw Rapture. The aquatic city astounded us with its breathtaking visuals; none of us had ever seen anything like it in a video game. We soon learnt that the underwater haven was in truth an aquatic madhouse, but that didn’t stop it from being a beautiful madhouse.

What made Rapture so brilliant was the fact that a lot of attention was made to show how at one time, this horrifying city was once a rather welcoming place. Sure, it’s gone to shits during the game, but the developers went out of their way to show that once this was a prospering city with more than a few wonders. And we see them, distorted and ravaged. No doubt about it; the design of Bioshock alone is a good argument for video games being a form of art.

Arguably no game afterwards could match the design of Bioshock, even with more polished graphics. Therefore Bioshock Infinite had heavy expectations to meet. In the end, did Bioshock Infinite meet those expectations?

No, it didn’t.

It met them, span around them, jumped around them, and flew past it with grace.

I’m gonna slightly spoil a later part of this comparison, but I’ll come out and say it: the best part of Bioshock Infinite was its first hour. The initial awe of Columbia easily trumped that of Rapture’s, and I spent several moments just standing still and watching this world around me. I had to search every nook and cranny, every little detail to this strangely welcoming world. I was entranced, but could still notice the dark secrets this façade of paradise was hiding.

Ultimately, Bioshock Infinite succeeds over Bioshock in design in two ways. The first is that as opposed to Rapture, which had already gone to hell and was already a mess when you arrive, Columbia is in the midst of its war and much of its higher class lived in blissful ignorance. Several areas are covered with average civilians seemingly enjoying themselves, or showing grief when something goes wrong for them. We know just how corrupt Columbia really is, but seeing these areas where people are happy and content made the setting much deeper than your average fascist location.

There is a downside to this however. When the bullets do start firing…all of the civilians just disappear. They’re not to be found. It’s like there’s a billion hiding holes scattered all over Columbia.

The second reason Columbia succeeds is due to something a good friend of mine brought up. You see, Bioshock Infinite has a very dark story. In fact, it’s a very violent story, but when you look at the design of the game on its own, overall it’s…

…Very bright and colorful. Huh.

This is significant because it shows that when making a dark story, you don’t need to make it look dark. You don’t have abuse the colors black and gray when designing the look of your story. Bioshock Infinite is a dark and mature game, but the colorful design of Columbia perfectly fits the patriotic madness of the city and it is a lesson to aspiring writers that just making things look dark is ultimately superficial.

All of this coupled with newer graphics make Bioshock Infinite the clear winner!

Edge: Bioshock Infinite

Gameplay:


Of all the parts on this comparison, this might be the hardest to talk about. Both have flaws and aspects over the other. I can safely say with both games though that they are fun and engaging to play, despite their issues.

First, I feel I need to talk about a recurring issue with Bioshock Infinite. As a sequel, Infinite tries to add to what the original did whilst still fitting it within the new setting. They also tried to answer some of the issues other people had with Bioshock. You wanted the setting to be used more gameplay wise? You got the Sky Hooks. You didn’t want Elizabeth to become an annoyance? She’s never targeted and helps you in battle.

A lot of these new ideas work…just don’t think too hard on their existence, or else these issues will arise:

• There are tons of Vending Machines in Columbia selling Vigors for your leisure…and yet nobody else on Columbia even thinks of using them besides you.
• The Sky Hooks…existence just don’t work. First of all, no one in their right minds would’ve created them to be used the way people do in their game. You’d have to be mad and suicidal.
• Furthermore, it’s amazing Booker and Elizabeth don’t break their legs jumping off of them!
• Finally, whilst Elizabeth is very useful in battle and she never becomes a load…why the fuck does nobody target her? Seriously, you’ve got these hundreds of people her are supposed to capture her alive, but they’ll often just run past her like she’s invisible. I know we didn’t want her to be a load, but come on

That’s not to say the original Bioshock didn’t have issues. The regeneration chambers made the game too easy due to their frequentness, and I would have liked to have seen underwater aspect used in the gameplay. Overall though, I prefer Bioshock’s gameplay for two reasons:

First are the boss battles. Both games have only one real boss fight each, Bioshock’s being at the end, Infinite being around the middle, and both are…well, shit. Really lackluster, but here’s my personal philosophy about final boss fights: the final boss in any game should be the most difficult fight in the game…whilst also giving off the feeling of a finale. Especially in story centered games, the final fight should feel like the culmination of everything you’ve been up against so far. A true epic finale.

Take for example the final battle with the Joker in Batman: Arkham Asylum. The fight is insultingly easy…but the size of that fight was incredible. Playing it, I truly felt like I had reached the end; that everything leading up to it had been for this moment, and whilst it was incredibly easy in the end, I still came out of it satisfied.

The same can be said with Bioshock’s final boss: Fontaine. Again, too easy for my taste, but I did at least feel like everything had been leading up to this moment, and this was the end of this dark, twisted journey where I would come out on top. It may have been an easy win, but it was a satisfying ending regardless.

Bioshock Infinite however doesn’t have this excuse, and whilst the boss fight against Lady Comstock was easy….my god was it annoying. Honestly my least favorite part of the game, gameplay wise.

But that’s only one reason why I put Bioshock’s gameplay over Infinite. What’s the other?

Simple: The powers.

It’s admittedly the case with both games that in the end, you’ll pick certain PLASMIDS of Vigors to use and stick with them for most of the game, but here’s the major difference; Bioshock’s PLASMIDs were different enough that playing the game again could be a completely different experience.

You could just electrocute the enemy over and over, or you could choose the power that improves you aim, or the one that allows you to control machines. They were all different enough that a second playthrough with new powers could involve completely new strategies and tactics to play with.

Infinite however, not so much. Besides the power to loot vending machines and the returning machine controller, all your other powers just allowed you to kill people in admittedly creative ways, but more or less the same: with brute force. There was just less diversity, and if you’re like you just stuck with shooting Ravens at groups of enemies over and over. The nail on the coffin is the upgrades, which were much more lackluster in Infinite.

I hate to sound like I’m bashing too much on Infinite. It was still a very fun game to play, but Bioshock was a much more solid and less flawed experience for me. Point goes to Bioshock!

Edge: Bioshock

Story:


When writing this comparison, I realized something; the comparison between Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite is not too different from the comparison between Portal and Portal 2

In terms of story, both Bioshock and Portal are damn near flawless. In fact, the latter may just be the only video game I consider ‘flawless’ (and the critic inside of me is weeping admitting that). They are tightly written, perfectly paced and take video gaming to a level originally only achieved by Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty by studying the very nature between the game, and its player.

Both Bioshock Infinite and Portal 2 had gigantic boots to fill, and I consider both to be very admirable efforts. Portal 2 is arguably the best game of 2011, but neither succeeds their predecessors. They both may be bigger, but neither was better.

So, what went wrong with Bioshock Infinite’s story? There was certainly a ton of potential and some fantastic elements; where did it falter? I’ve already gushed about Bioshock’s near perfect story, so I’ll be mostly talking about Infinite here, and I think to best understand what went wrong, I’ll have to narrate the game from beginning to end.

I mentioned before that the best part of Bioshock Infinite was its first hour, and I’m not saying the because the rest was crap. No, the opening hour of Bioshock Infinite is fucking SPECTACULAR. We are blessed with this fascinating setting that manages to teach us a lot about it without the need for forced exposition: the blissful ignorance of its 1st class citizens, the violent racism, the extremist Christianity, their blind reverence to Comstock, their hatred of Lincoln…this is a fine example of how you can convey so much without long winded explanations.

You then meet Elizabeth in another great scene, and quite soon after the plot point of alternate universes comes into play, and it’s a fascinating idea. It initially isn’t a huge part of the story, but as the games goes on it becomes more and more relevant, minute by minute……

…And at the same time however, the civil war in Columbia between Comstock and Vox Populi becomes less and less important.

This is where I get to the point of my problem with Bioshock Infinite. The game ultimately has loads of great ideas, but struggles desperately to balance them all, and some of its most interesting ideas do not get the attention they deserves. I honestly wanted to learn more about the civil war in Columbia, about the history of this marvelous city, about the characters that inhabit.

Alas, I do not get that. By the second half of the game it’s pretty clear this is a character driven story for Booker and Elizabeth, and while that is done mostly well, much of what was brought up earlier is left to the wayside. Perhaps if Bioshock Infinite had been a TV series these various elements would’ve gotten more attention, but sadly it’s not.

It doesn’t help that the middle section of the game is largely a bunch of boring fetch quests and don’t lead to well to each other. It’s like I’m playing a really clichéd JRPG during these moments, minus the Moe.

Then there’s also the ending, which I already discussed. When you really do stop and think about it, this is not the supposedly happy ending I think the game was trying to express. Again, its interpretation, and I wish that it was a reformed Booker with Anna, but part of me tell me it’s not.

I loved what Bioshock Infinite tried to be, and it does succeed at some of what it tries to be, but I can’t help but find it unfocused and too large for its own good. When you compare this to the tightly written and perfectly paced Bioshock…it’s, kinda obvious whose won, isn’t it?

Edge: Bioshock

Overall:


Despite my harshness towards the game at times, I truly enjoyed Bioshock Infinite and what it tried to be. It was a game that tried to be a lot and with a bit more focus it could’ve succeeded much more, but in the end it cannot match the one of a kind genius that was Bioshock.

That said, I highly recommend both games (if you’ve not played either yet and have skipped my review just to see who won at the end), for they are some of the best modern video gaming has to offer. Who knows? You may play both and prefer Bioshock Infinite. I could certainly see why.

For me however, it will always be Bioshock, and it is still one of my all time favourite video games. The winner is Bioshock!

Bioshock: 3

Bioshock Infinite: 2

Winner: Bioshock


Hope you enjoyed my comparison, and please feel free to leave your thoughts and views! Till next time folks!
Hope you enjoy! I've worked hard on this one!
Add a Comment:
 
:iconcaptainface:
Captainface Featured By Owner Jul 6, 2014
I should ask, since all the DLC is out, has anything changed since this comparison?
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner Jul 7, 2014
The DLC hasn't changed it, but truthfully I'm a lot kinder to Bioshock Infinite than I was before. Still think the original is the better game.
Reply
:iconcaptainface:
Captainface Featured By Owner Jul 7, 2014
I can understand. I suppose what I was more interested in was your view of Booker now
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner Jul 8, 2014
I can appreciate his redemption story more, since it is the core of the game. He's still a pathetic individual whose denial and inner demons cause everything that's wrong with this world, but that's naturally the point.
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:iconcaptainface:
Captainface Featured By Owner Jul 13, 2014
Indeed
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:icondemot92:
Demot92 Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2014
I am not a fan of bio shock infinite, mostly because what they did wrong with it. For starters you said you like Elizabeth and a lot of people do and me as well when i first saw her. how ever on my second play through i noticed a few things that was wrong(and when i mean wrong i mean horribly wrong with this girl) Now when she first laid eyes on Booker she was scared untrustworthy of Booker, now lets fast forwarded a bit and we can see here excited and happy and talking and dancing with people she has never met before. Now Elizabeth has lived a sheltered life style all her life, she had very little to no interactions with any one but her self over the cores of that time, do you see were i am getting at, Elizabeth is not acting they way she should be. I expected her to be un-trusting to any one she meets, cynical, afraid, paranoid, ect ect. But instead she is an up beat Disney princess with better social skills than Booker. I think i know why the makers did this because it will be hard for the player to be invested in a emotionally withdrawn Elizabeth then a up beat one. But to do this is causes a disconnect with the relations between Elizabeth and the player. They clearly did not think this through enough.
Not only does the Character of Elizabeth gets a bad rep from me but also the side story as well. Side story being slavery and second class citizens such as Irish workers. If a game has this type of story in it I expect it to give it some detail and to also go all out I.E. On my many play through of the game I never herd any mention of Lynching beatings or any case of a black slave being raped by there white masters, yes it is pretty graphic but damn it if there going to put racism and slavery in here I(and a great deal of others)expect them to go all out.
I am not going to touch on the other timeline thing because the hole this is one big grandfather paradox theory.
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2014

I have to disagree with you when you say she should be distrusting and cynical when she's finally out of the tower. That moment and her first meeting Booker are significantly different: Booker literally falls from the sky towards her, leaving her shocked and likely in fear of being attacked. She will naturally be distrusting and close to attacking him.


But when she's freed, she knows of Bookers intention, and more importantly, she is finally free, something she wanted her entire life. For the first time in her life she is interacting with other people and seeing things outside of her tower. Really, it makes perfect sense for her to be happy and excited, because in a sense her dream has come true, and she is revelling in it whilst still clearly naïve to the dangers surrounding.


On a final note, it also serves a sharp contrast to how she is at the end. The whole game is her becoming that cynical and distrustful woman, so having her start out sweet and innocent but have her change just goes to show how fucked up the situation she is in is.


With regards the racist subplots however, I'm more prone to agree. Then again I've heard some interesting defences for this which has made me ponder over it all over again, but there are still things I dislike about it. Comstock in particular is nothing compared to Andrew Ryan.

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:icondemot92:
Demot92 Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2014
You may have a point about Elizabeth and I kinda have overlooked her first meeting with Booker(after all if some one unexpectedly falls from a roof some one will be shocked at first) But I still feel she should of been Emotionally Withdrawn at the beginning and then gradually over time become a bubbly up beat person she was then to the cynical person she is at the end of the game, and be fore you say any thing think carefully. Place your self in Elizabeth's life, For your whole life you have lived in the tower alone with very little to no interactions to any one but you self, then by some chance you get out and be for you take your first step you start to think what will you do? Will you try and talk to some one? If you do will they be a saint or an ass? If they are an ass to you will you think every one else is an ass? who are your friends and who are your foes? Will they use you? Are they going to hurt you? Who are the monsters the people you should try to avoid? Is it worth it leaving the safety and comfort of the tower only to be hurt by some fowl mouth individual? The tower is all you know in this world safety peace and happy while outside is uncanny.

Elizabeth is given human emotions and characteristics and so I expect her to act like some one who has lived this kind of life. And yes there are people out there who are like Elizabeth. I have met them before and tried to talk to them all the while i see fear in there eyes. Now granted there are some who are braver and take the chance to talk to others but whose how long it took them to build up such courage. Those who have written Elizabeth have not thought this through enough and the game is suffering for it in my eyes(and others). 
 
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2014

I think you my friend have forgotten one important factor regarding the tower: Songbird.


At first she regarded Songbird as her friend, but eventually she realised that he was keeping her locked up, and soon their relationship became not too dissimilar to an abusive relationship. She is frightened of him and a large reason as to why she leaves is to get away from him. While you're right that anyone she could meet could be an ass, I can perfectly see Elizabeth being so pleased to be out of there that that's the last thought on her mind.


I feel the issue with your logic here is that you're regarding Elizabeth as this 24/7 hyper competent, overly logical person. She's not. While she is smart, she is also human and flawed, and most importantly, naïve. It's a perfectly believable scenario when in her first moments of freedom, she lets go of any caution and her newfound freedom. Ultimately her initial naivety is broken, and once she knows the weight of the situation, she is noticeably more grown up. Rushed it may sometimes be, but believable, absolutely. 

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:icondemot92:
Demot92 Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2014
I did not forget about songbird out. I new he was there but I have different thoughts about him, and have a reason of leavening him out. Songbird is built up to be infinite's equivalent of a big daddy. Now for me(and i am going on my thoughts here) Big daddy's are not relay human to some extent. They seem more like Mindless animals that have been tasked to watch out for there little sisters that they have been charged with. Songbird has the same task as the big daddy's only he is charged to keep Elizabeth in the tower and not follow her were ever she goes and protect her from harm. It is quite logical for Elizabeth to be friends with song bird after all he is the only one that she knows is there to talk to so that is quiet understandable seeing how she is human and humans are sociable creatures and that we can make friends with any one and anything(like we the players becoming friends or falling in love with the companion cube in portal). But songbird is nothing but an animal following orders from his master.

I agree Elizabeth is Smart, flawed, and naïve, and it is understandable for any one to through caution to the wind and be excited to be able to leave the tower if they were Elizabeth. I only wish the Writers for infinite could go a bit further, like say she is happy that she is out and excited to go any were, but then as the excitement creeps down questions will pop in her mind thinking this could be a bad idea. Elizabeth has changed her happy mood to one that is shy scared and sad(this could be a powerful moment here between Booker and Elizabeth as he tries to reassure her every thing is going to be fine). Elizabeth will be reluctant at first but slowly builds courage and excitement and starts to join in the fun. the have the game play out as is does and changed Elizabeth to the cynical person at the end. I know this is wishful thinking on my part, but after replaying the game so many times now I have notice flaws after flaws that made me think why did I ever buy this game. But I can ignore all the bad choices Booker makes, I can Ignore the two guns limit bull shit and the limited ammo, I can ignore that the vigers we have are just lame and that the only a few enemy's use them, I can ignore all of that if the characters have character development a major character development were I can believe them to have changed. I want to see, and hear my character or companion to go through these emotions as we progress through the game I does not have to be long I can be shorten to about 5 min of play. This type of development Elizabeth goes through just not believable for me with out that nervousness and shyness that she should have went through. Over all this is just wishful thinking on my part there nothing I can do about it now and i am just gonna have to live with it even though I can never except it.
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2014

songbird's nature doesn't really change my point though. Animal or human, Songbird is both Elizabeth's only friend and her guard all throughout her childhood. Not only does she fear him, but being happy and upbeat after being freed makes sense because - at the moment in her eyes - she was finally free from both her prison and him, the being she both somewhat cared for, but also largely feared.


Looking at your description of how you think she should have acted after being freed, I'll admit it could work...in a TV series, or possibly a film. That level of subtle acting could work there, but the fact is mate that this is a Video Game. It is a different medium and therefore requires different kinds of storytelling. The scene does what it needs to do; it establishes that she is happy to be free and still naïve and clueless to the danger it is in.


In a TV show or film your ideas may be more realistic, but in a game that only has a few minutes to provide context, this scene as it delivers and doesn't need changing.

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:icondemot92:
Demot92 Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2014
I like to commend you for this argument, you have given good points of your views and I agree with some of them. My view on the game has not changed though. I still believe that Elizabeth should have gone through what I wanted her to go through but o'well there is nothing I can do about it now. I should probable say some thing else about the game Such as Booker, the game play, the mechanics and so on and so forth, but I think I would be here arguing a lot longer than I planed. After Reading you reviews here I will be Reading you other reviews and be giving my thoughts on them if any so for now I bid you a due. 
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner Jan 26, 2014
Thanks! And I certainly appreciate and understand your views, even though I don't agree with them all. And hope to chat in later reviews!
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:iconartidiotguy222:
ArtIdiotGuy222 Featured By Owner Oct 12, 2013
I say nay and disagree with your opinion, if your willing to hear why then reply to this comment.
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner Oct 12, 2013
Sure, but I will defend my opinion of course.
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:iconartidiotguy222:
ArtIdiotGuy222 Featured By Owner Oct 13, 2013
You have every right to do that

I prefer BioShock Infinite over BioShock through a series of reasons, one of them being the fact that the character we're playing as is well a character.

Like you said Jack is just a story telling device that never says a word after the opening, Booker in my opinion is the better character because we learn about him, we see bits of his history and the guy has had moments of awesome throughout the game which outweigh Jack's achievements.

And that's my first reason
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner Oct 13, 2013
I did give the main character ranking to Infinite, but not for Booker, but for Elizabeth personally. Booker's story is supposed to be about him redeeming his sociopathic life, but that sorta loses potency when he casually kills hundreds of people. I'm not saying he shouldn't have defended himself, but this redemption story doesn't quite gel as well as it could.

And let's not downgrade Jack's important. Story device he may, but he is the story device to one of the most intelligent twists in video gaming history. There was a part of me that wanted to give him the point instead for that alone.
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:iconartidiotguy222:
ArtIdiotGuy222 Featured By Owner Oct 13, 2013
That's still valid but I don't view Infinite as Booker's redemption story. The prospects of Columbia could make for one than one game and multiple games.However I feel that Booker's redemption is something that happens with the ending regardless of Spoony's review of the game.

Speaking of which lets talk about endings
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner Oct 13, 2013
Spoony's view of the ending is hardly unquestionable, but I think it's a theory that has merit and worth considering.
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:iconartidiotguy222:
ArtIdiotGuy222 Featured By Owner Oct 13, 2013
I'm not saying it isn't, I'm using my own opinion of the game
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner Oct 13, 2013
Fair enough, but it's not enough to sway me.
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(1 Reply)
:iconscrewinon:
screwinon Featured By Owner Jun 5, 2013
Personally I disagree with what you said about the powers and Booker. I always believed that Booker's story arc was never about redemption, or religion, those are just themes. The central theme that both Comstock and Booker share, is denial. They both chose to run from their problems, and their sins both in very terrible ways, which of course both made them into terrible people in different lights. The end is to signify Booker finally coming to terms with what he's done, and accept his penance. Only with that done with can he truly choose to become a better person.

For I do believe that the End-Booker remembers all the crap from Columbia. Because one, all worlds are connected whether they know it or not. And the last thing Booker says, with fear in his voice, 'Anna, is that you?' Why would he think his daughter was gone if Comstock never existed?

At least, that's what I believe. :shrug:
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner Jun 5, 2013
Well of course you're entitled to your opinion, but I personally disagree. The entire difference surrounding Booker and Comstock is how they chose to redeem themselves.

Booker refused baptism and became a drunk, Comstock did and became a religious maniac. Booker sells his own child and gets a chance to redeem himself...by killing hundreds. This may have been done better if all of this wasn't crammed into the last 30 minutes, but ultimately this tale of redemption doesn't work well.

I don't think that sentence is enough evidence to suggest that Booker remembers Columbia. One could argue he just woke from bed, heard his daughter crying, and still drozy called out to her.

More importantly, despite being connected, it was made clear that other Bookers could die without affecting the one we play. After all the one who became a martyr to Vox Populi didn't affect Booker, nor did Comstock's death. I'd like to believe Booker does remember, but there's really not enough proof to back that assumption.
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:iconscrewinon:
screwinon Featured By Owner Jun 5, 2013
Didn't sound drunk to me. :/ Trust me, I've known a lot of drunk people in my life. Most of the killing was in self-defense so I'm not that bothered by it, all the gore was just to show that Booker was really eff'd in the head.

I don't want to debate because I absolutely SUCK at debating, so can we agree to disagree. ^^'
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner Jun 5, 2013
Fair enough. The game does have a fair bit of speculation, but I'm kinda sticking with mine for now.
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:iconscrewinon:
screwinon Featured By Owner Jun 5, 2013
Well I don't know about you, but this is probably the first game where I am actually looking forward to DLC. :D So many things that can be focused on. Perhaps even the origins of Songbird. :dance:
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2013
Indeed!
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:iconscrewinon:
screwinon Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2013
I don't care what people say. I played both Portal 1 and Bioshock 1 before playing Portal 2 and Bioshock Infinite, and I thought each of them were far more enjoyable in their own respectful way. :icongrin--plz: I'm not saying you're opinion is wrong, in fact it's well stated and very well analyzed. But I just have more heart for the sequels, I have no idea why, I just do. Take that what you will. :shrug:

Also on the note: one of my fave games: Mass Effect 2. ^^;
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2013
Hey, it's your preference. I just preferred the originals because they were these perfect little gems. Both Portal 2 and Infinite had a lot to beat, and they went the 'bigger' root, and while they're good they don't beat the originals for me.

Mass Effect 2 is the best in that trilogy, easily.
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(1 Reply)
:icondokachimera:
DokaChimera Featured By Owner May 31, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Wonderful article. I agree with your opinion.And i think, First bioshok - was a place for surprise and discovery. In bioshoke: infinity, almost all the interesting moments was shown in the trailers ...
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2013
Thanks! Definately true, no one was prepared for how good Bioshock would be, and unfortunately Infinite never reached that same height...

Thanks for the fave btw!
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:iconphoenixangelgal:
Phoenixangelgal Featured By Owner May 25, 2013  Student General Artist
I actually prefer Infinite's use of vigor/plasmids over Bioshock's. Bioshock just had SO MANY, and some of them just didn't work for me (I could only get the security one to work maybe 30% of the time, it was easier either destroying the machines or shocking them and THEN hacking them).

I think Infinite's simplification of the powers made it a breath of fresh air.

I also should consider combos, but the vigors take so much.
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner May 26, 2013
That's fair enough of course. Certainly, in both games I probably played it like you. I just feel Bioshock was better because there was that option for more stealthy fighting. Some people just go for that really.
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:iconultimatezuko:
ultimatezuko Featured By Owner May 23, 2013
Well I'm on what might be my 4th playtrough on bioshock (haven't played infinite...and I just read this) even if it's quite a pain in the ass on survivor it just made me consious on the "tactical" part of this as I kid you not I was stuck for about 2 hours on a hallway and everything resolved by swapping incinerate with...pick-up-mindy-thingy.

And yes it's quite the exelent game and...hehehe I'm not that good at analysing games :/
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner May 24, 2013
Well that was one of my points really. You could play Bioshock over and over and play it in a different way and get a different experience from it.

Infinite unfortunately not so much. It's not that it's linear; it's the fact that the powers are mostly the same.
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:iconultimatezuko:
ultimatezuko Featured By Owner May 25, 2013
Well bioshock is linear really, there is no side quest and the diferent endings are dictated only by saying: "kill or no kill", there are ENORMOUS incentives for exploration but that does not means it's not linear.
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner May 26, 2013
Yea, but Bioshock is linear done to perfection. You're limited on where to go, but it makes that single path a...absolutely unforgettable experience.
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:iconultimatezuko:
ultimatezuko Featured By Owner May 28, 2013
Let's not forget all the shit they crammed on that limited single path, I swear those audio recordings only got harder to find because of the places they where XD.
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner May 30, 2013
It is a perfect example of how to do a linear game.
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:iconultimatezuko:
ultimatezuko Featured By Owner May 30, 2013
Should we specify a bit more, it is indeed an amazing way to make a linear game, but it is because of all the freedom you get in that path?
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2013
I think it's because of the story and the design. Design wise, there may not be as much as a sanbox game, but Bioshock is very much quality over quantity, and everything looks incredible.

Story wise, it's just one of the most incredible stories in gaming. Linearity is often the best way to tell a story in a game.
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(1 Reply)
:iconjeffersonairship:
JeffersonAirship Featured By Owner May 23, 2013
Reading this over twice and then reflecting on my own thoughts on the game... frankly, this is more or less my general summation of Infinite as well. A tragic example of a game crippled by own its high aspirations.
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner May 24, 2013
Indeed. I respect it for what it tried to be and still hold it as being a good game, but there's so much missed potential and it's ultimately too unfocused.
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:iconranger24:
Ranger24 Featured By Owner May 23, 2013
interesting considerations, but why wasn't bioshock 2 analyzed?
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner May 23, 2013
I mean I...kinda addressed that right at the start......I can't help but wonder if you even read the comparison...
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:iconranger24:
Ranger24 Featured By Owner May 24, 2013
I did its just i kinda skipped the intro and went right to the comparisons.
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner May 25, 2013
Eh, fair enough. Hope you enjoyed it though!
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner May 23, 2013
Because Bioshock 2 is kinda shit.
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:iconjeffersonairship:
JeffersonAirship Featured By Owner May 23, 2013
Amen.
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:iconnukid101:
Nukid101 Featured By Owner May 24, 2013
Thanks ^^.
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